Programming Forums > Application Development > C++

Wizard1988 · Aug 18th, 2006, 7:12 PM

And how would the program know if it was connected to your server or not? There could be a crack which overwrites the bytes which actually do the checking. This often gets done with NOP commands. This is because all checks are essentially jump commands.

Dameon · Aug 18th, 2006, 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godmode

There is a way to completely secure your app.(depending what kind of app is it). Use some kind of client-server authentication thing. In that case of course you have to have server network(hopefully 100% uptime) and every client needs an internet connection. But it is always reliable,unbreakable method to secure your app.

(Everything clients could do to "cheat" is to try to scam other users to steal their accounts, it's not even your loss then:p ).

Those are some lofty claims for one who most obviously has no idea at all of what he is talking about.

Random Spirit · Aug 18th, 2006, 8:00 PM

The problem is that the software on the client that communicates with the server can be reverse engineered. It then can be circumvented easily. The problem is that no obfuscator can protect your code from reverse engineering. There is no way to stop a crack being developed. Someone somewhere will have the ability to crack it. Has any major commercial software with these sorts of copy protection systems ever withstood the crackers? The answer is no. So in the end you have to accept that people will prirate your software by circumventing whatever protection you have put in. You can use the sort of software the OP was talking about to obfuscate your protection system but all it does is make it harder for the crackers.

Arevos · Aug 18th, 2006, 8:03 PM

Wizard1988 is quite right. The only unbreakable application, in terms of software security, is one the user does not have physical access to (such as a website or some manner of server system). Even then, there's still the issue of old-fashioned theft to contend with.

That said, cracking DRM takes time and effort; if the results aren't worth it, your DRM scheme may very well remain intact. That said, has anyone ever bought a piece of software on the strength of its DRM?

titaniumdecoy · Aug 18th, 2006, 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arevos

That said, has anyone ever bought a piece of software on the strength of its DRM?

Perhaps not, but music, certainly...

Arevos · Aug 18th, 2006, 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titaniumdecoy

Perhaps not, but music, certainly...

Are you saying that there have been times when you would not have bought a piece of music if it had not been DRMed?

Dameon · Aug 18th, 2006, 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titaniumdecoy

Perhaps not, but music, certainly...

Sony comes to mind.

Godmode · Aug 19th, 2006, 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godmode

depending what kind of app is it

As I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard1988

And how would the program know if it was connected to your server or not?

Well, it wont't.

But if it's online app.(e.g. an online game) there are "servers user doesn't have a control".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arevos

The only unbreakable application, in terms of software security, is one the user does not have physical access to

That was my point too.

E.g. you may start fake online bank server but your balance is not crackable even if you hack the client. Everyone got the point..

Original post was about plain exes, maybe that server-client-suggestion was a little bit offtopic then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dameon

Those are some lofty claims for one who most obviously has no idea at all of what he is talking about.

lol dameon

titaniumdecoy · Aug 19th, 2006, 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arevos

Are you saying that there have been times when you would not have bought a piece of music if it had not been DRMed?

Sorry, I must have misunderstood... I meant that there have been times when I would not have bought a piece of music if it had been DRMed.

And Godmode, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

Arevos · Aug 19th, 2006, 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godmode

That was my point too.

E.g. you may start fake online bank server but your balance is not crackable even if you hack the client. Everyone got the point..

Your previous post wasn't clear on this. It sounded as if your hypothetical server was just handling authentication. To wit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godmode

There is a way to completely secure your app.(depending what kind of app is it). Use some kind of client-server authentication thing.

Obviously authenication alone is not a guarentee of security. The core logic of the system would have to be implemented on the server, with the client just being used as an IO device. You may know this, but you didn't make this clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by titaniumdecoy

Sorry, I must have misunderstood... I meant that there have been times when I would not have bought a piece of music if it had been DRMed.

Sorry, I wasn't clear on this. What I meant was, has anyone ever thought; "The DRM has foiled my attempt to illegally copy this music; I guess I'd better buy it instead."?

In other words, I'm rather skeptical of the effectiveness of DRM.

Aug 18th, 2006, 7:12 PM	#21
Wizard1988 Professional Programmer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Chitown Posts: 422 Rep Power: 4	And how would the program know if it was connected to your server or not? There could be a crack which overwrites the bytes which actually do the checking. This often gets done with NOP commands. This is because all checks are essentially jump commands. __________________

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Aug 18th, 2006, 8:00 PM	#23
Random Spirit Unverified User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 88 Rep Power: 0	The problem is that the software on the client that communicates with the server can be reverse engineered. It then can be circumvented easily. The problem is that no obfuscator can protect your code from reverse engineering. There is no way to stop a crack being developed. Someone somewhere will have the ability to crack it. Has any major commercial software with these sorts of copy protection systems ever withstood the crackers? The answer is no. So in the end you have to accept that people will prirate your software by circumventing whatever protection you have put in. You can use the sort of software the OP was talking about to obfuscate your protection system but all it does is make it harder for the crackers.

Aug 18th, 2006, 8:03 PM	#24
Arevos Programming Guru Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,499 Rep Power: 5	Wizard1988 is quite right. The only unbreakable application, in terms of software security, is one the user does not have physical access to (such as a website or some manner of server system). Even then, there's still the issue of old-fashioned theft to contend with. That said, cracking DRM takes time and effort; if the results aren't worth it, your DRM scheme may very well remain intact. That said, has anyone ever bought a piece of software on the strength of its DRM?

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Programming Forums > Application Development > C++

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