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Lich · Mar 6th, 2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sane

You keep stating the exact same thing as I said in the first sentence over and over again. However, nobody has yet argued against my specific reasons yet.

It's as simple as this: programming involves the use of logic. You must be able to have control structures and algorithms in order for it to be programming.

HTML is not a programming language. It can not add 2 + 2. It can not ask a condition or process variables. All it does is displays something. It is source code. It is a computer language. It is a markup language. It is not a programming language.

Sane · Mar 6th, 2006, 11:44 PM

Hehe. Did I say anywhere that HTML was programming? o_O!!

The closest I got to it was saying it contains the essence of it. I even said in the title "HTML <is not equal to> Programming".

Jimbo · Mar 7th, 2006, 2:27 AM

HTML has the essense of formatting information. It follows its own formatting syntax, as do programming languages. If you consider having its own syntax to imply that it contains the essense of programming, then sure, but so does any other language (spoken or otherwise). Otherwise, HTML and programming really don't have a lot in common...

DaWei · Mar 7th, 2006, 9:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sane

I definitely say html contains the essence of programming.

Get yer waffles at the pancake house.

Ooble · Mar 7th, 2006, 1:20 PM

OK Sane, I'll argue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sane

HTML is a lot like programming in the sense where you have an idea formed in your head and you must reach that formidable conclusion. This conclusion can be reached several different ways, and each have their drawbacks in either speed or compatibility. To reach the end result you will also usually need to problem solve in your head, how best to go about the several different methods.

That's not programming, that's problem solving, and yes, writing markup definitely involves problem-solving.

Mocker · Mar 7th, 2006, 1:27 PM

This isn't an opinion issue, programming languages involve functions, logic. HTML is a markup language because it is just static, a series of tags. HTML, XML.. etc.

Technically I believe programming languages are only those that are compiled and then run, so php etc doesn't even fall under it.

DaWei · Mar 7th, 2006, 1:30 PM

PHP is a programming language. The fact that the conversion from souce to machine code goes through a couple of levels doesn't alter that fact that the source is converted ultimately to machine language and directs the operation of the processor. I'm of the opinion that effective programmers don't need to know what's under the hood in order to solve problems with a computer. It's obviously a dam' good thing, since 'under the hood' and the working of the engine don't seem to be as common knowledge as they once were.

Polyphemus_ · Mar 7th, 2006, 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mocker

Technically I believe programming languages are only those that are compiled and then run, so php etc doesn't even fall under it.

So you mean Java, C#, VB .NET and other interpretted languages are no programming language

Mocker · Mar 7th, 2006, 3:58 PM

I am probably off and if this was true it is probably not anymore since interpreted languages are so common and powerful now.

definition wise, that difference was what seperated scripting languages and programming languages, scripts get put together at run time, programming languages get compiled ahead of time, and then html and xml are exactly what they say, markup languages which are basically just a way of formatting data and do not involve logic or functionality. I thought Java counted as a programming language and compiled by the java virtual machine, but I dont really know the details

DaWei · Mar 7th, 2006, 4:07 PM

Typically, Java compiles to byte code which is converted by the virtual machine to machine instructions suitable for the particular processor hosting the particular VM. This results in the so-called "write once, run everywhere" (that has a VM) philosophy, often conceded to be "write once, debug everywhere." One could call this interpretation of a sort, but interpreted languages are generally conceded to be those which remain in source form or an intermediate form. The interpreter reads this form and converts it into the appropriate machine instructions "on-the-fly", so to speak. There is nothing secretive or mysterious about this stuff. Any reference to material that has existed for years will serve to convey information to the reader that is far preferable to the off-the-skull pronouncements that seem to be the favorite of people attempting to impress with their newly gained knowledge. Reading, research, and study have not, to my current knowledge, been outlawed in favor of BS.

Mar 7th, 2006, 1:27 PM	#26
Mocker Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 217 Rep Power: 0	This isn't an opinion issue, programming languages involve functions, logic. HTML is a markup language because it is just static, a series of tags. HTML, XML.. etc. Technically I believe programming languages are only those that are compiled and then run, so php etc doesn't even fall under it. __________________ #programmingforums relay - http://thegupstudio.com/cgi-bin/pforelay.cgi freelance scripts - http://ryanguthrie.com/index.html

Mar 7th, 2006, 1:30 PM	#27
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	PHP is a programming language. The fact that the conversion from souce to machine code goes through a couple of levels doesn't alter that fact that the source is converted ultimately to machine language and directs the operation of the processor. I'm of the opinion that effective programmers don't need to know what's under the hood in order to solve problems with a computer. It's obviously a dam' good thing, since 'under the hood' and the working of the engine don't seem to be as common knowledge as they once were. __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

Mar 7th, 2006, 3:58 PM	#29
Mocker Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 217 Rep Power: 0	I am probably off and if this was true it is probably not anymore since interpreted languages are so common and powerful now. definition wise, that difference was what seperated scripting languages and programming languages, scripts get put together at run time, programming languages get compiled ahead of time, and then html and xml are exactly what they say, markup languages which are basically just a way of formatting data and do not involve logic or functionality. I thought Java counted as a programming language and compiled by the java virtual machine, but I dont really know the details __________________ #programmingforums relay - http://thegupstudio.com/cgi-bin/pforelay.cgi freelance scripts - http://ryanguthrie.com/index.html

Mar 7th, 2006, 4:07 PM	#30
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	Typically, Java compiles to byte code which is converted by the virtual machine to machine instructions suitable for the particular processor hosting the particular VM. This results in the so-called "write once, run everywhere" (that has a VM) philosophy, often conceded to be "write once, debug everywhere." One could call this interpretation of a sort, but interpreted languages are generally conceded to be those which remain in source form or an intermediate form. The interpreter reads this form and converts it into the appropriate machine instructions "on-the-fly", so to speak. There is nothing secretive or mysterious about this stuff. Any reference to material that has existed for years will serve to convey information to the reader that is far preferable to the off-the-skull pronouncements that seem to be the favorite of people attempting to impress with their newly gained knowledge. Reading, research, and study have not, to my current knowledge, been outlawed in favor of BS. __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

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Mar 6th, 2006, 11:44 PM	#22
Sane Programming Guru Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 1,869 Rep Power: 5	Hehe. Did I say anywhere that HTML was programming? o_O!! The closest I got to it was saying it contains the essence of it. I even said in the title "HTML <is not equal to> Programming".

Mar 7th, 2006, 2:27 AM	#23
Jimbo Battle Programmer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA, USA Posts: 763 Rep Power: 3	HTML has the essense of formatting information. It follows its own formatting syntax, as do programming languages. If you consider having its own syntax to imply that it contains the essense of programming, then sure, but so does any other language (spoken or otherwise). Otherwise, HTML and programming really don't have a lot in common...

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HTML =/= Programming