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Eric the Red · Feb 28th, 2006, 7:26 PM

Now whenever i'm working on a algorithm it seems that I take a lot longer than other people around me working on the same algorithm. I can't explain why.

Do u think that with practice creating algorithms i'll be more efficient creating them, example: faster creation time/ less debug time? or do u think that there's a certain point where talent far outweights experience?

Maybe an experienced programmer can answer.

ReggaetonKing · Feb 28th, 2006, 7:42 PM

yeah, it will be very effective! I, myself, talk from experience! And as for talent outweighing experience...I don't know about that, You gain experience as you go along on what ever you wish to do continuously. Experienced programmers far beat out newbies in a matter of knowing what they are talking about and having to dealt with that knowledge/something for some time versus a newbie new to something and haven't full something's potential. It's true that people can acceleration in something faster than others but what if they are missing out on something that while learning that something. Example, experienced drivers versus teens with their permits. It's all about experience in this matter just like how the world is today. Experience drivers have driven a lot more than that teen even if the teen gets the hang of it in a shorter time period than the experienced driver did when he/she was first driving. Who cares who learn what first or faster, its all about experience and having to deal with it for extended time period!

Jimbo · Feb 28th, 2006, 7:46 PM

There is a small factor (IMHO) relating your natural thought processes to developing algorithms, but experience is probably the main factor.

Eric the Red · Feb 28th, 2006, 9:20 PM

Anyone else have anything to add?

thechristelegacy · Feb 28th, 2006, 10:05 PM

Exerience usually seams to increase speed. For example, as a young adult (old teen), I wash dishes. When I started I was slow. I've been there for a while now, and I'm in charge of the new people, and from who I've worked with throughout the entire restraunt, whether it be a cook, a dishwasher, a bus boy, etc, the longer they've worked, the faster they are at it.

Navid · Feb 28th, 2006, 10:38 PM

Well how do you come up with your algorithms? The way I solve algorithms is broken down into steps:

1. I ask myself in pure English: "What is it that I want my program to do exactly?"

2. I get a sheet of paper and a pencil and figure out how I'm going to do that (it comes along with experience).

3. Translate it to the computer.

This might not look helpful to some people, but you'd be surprise how many people sit there trying to code something when they don't even know what they want themselves.

bivhitscar · Mar 1st, 2006, 1:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navid

2. I get a sheet of paper and a pencil and figure out how I'm going to do that (it comes along with experience).

Hell yeh, I can't even think about a complex problem unless I write it out old school. You end up going round in circles and hitting dead ends otherwise.

Arevos · Mar 1st, 2006, 2:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric the Red

Do u think that with practice creating algorithms i'll be more efficient creating them, example: faster creation time/ less debug time? or do u think that there's a certain point where talent far outweights experience?

I think talent certainly gives you a head start, but experience becomes increasinly relevant as time progresses. Programming is the art of dividing a problem into (preferably reusable) smaller pieces. It takes practise and experience to know the best way to achieve that. A certain level of intuition helps, but I believe there's nothing in the field of programming that is innately unlearnable, so intuition can be substituted with continued practise.

.TD · Mar 1st, 2006, 6:22 AM

Making sure the problem is well defined in your head as well as where else it maybe defined (and that these definitions match) is vital, without knowing exactly what you are trying to solve then you probably won't get a solution to it!

Eric the Red · Mar 1st, 2006, 8:22 PM

Here's the algorithm that took me an hour. Which probably takes you guys like 30 mins. Look at the output if you want.

(Toggle Plain Text)

// The "CompContest1" class.
import java.awt.*;
import hsa.Console;

public class CompContest1
{
    static Console c;           // The output console

    public static void main (String [] args)
    {
        c = new Console ();
        int strlength, x, spacecounterinc, spacecounterdec, spacecounter;
        int countchar = 0, looplength;
        int answer = 1 ;
        //c.println ("Would you like to start the word app (type '1' for yes '0' for no");
        //answer = c.readInt();
        answer = 1;
        while (answer != 0)
        {
            c.println ("Please enter a word enter '0' to quit");


            countchar = 0;
            String str1 = new String ();
            str1 = c.readString (); // user input
            strlength = str1.length ();
            //c.print (strlength);
            // set a var to hold the length of the vertical amount of lines required
            looplength = (strlength * 2);
            //
            spacecounter = strlength;


            for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 1 ; i++)
            {
                spacecounterdec = strlength; //
                while (spacecounterdec >= 1)
                {

                    spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1;
                    if (spacecounterdec != countchar)
                    {
                        c.print (" "); // testing for space
                    }
                    else
                    {
                        c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));

                    }
                }

                spacecounterinc = 0; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately
                while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2))
                {

                    spacecounterinc++; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already
                    if (spacecounterinc != countchar)
                    {
                        c.print (" "); // testing for space
                    }
                    //else if (spacecounter == strlength)
                    else
                    {
                        //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar);
                        c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));
                        //countchar++;
                    }
                }
                if (countchar != strlength - 1)
                {
                    countchar++; // next char after for loop is done
                }

                c.println (" ");
            }


            spacecounter = strlength;
            countchar = strlength;

            //looplength = (strlength * 2);
            //
            spacecounter = 0;
            countchar = (strlength - 2); //the last character in strlength

            for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++)
                //for (int i = strlength ; i >= 0 ; i = i - 1) don't use 4 sure
                {
                    spacecounterdec = strlength; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately
                    while (spacecounterdec >= 1)
                    {

                        spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already
                        if (spacecounterdec != countchar)
                        {
                            c.print (" "); // testing for space
                        }
                        else
                        {
                            //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar);
                            c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));


                        }
                    }

                    spacecounterinc = 0; //
                    //c.print ("part4");
                    while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2))
                    {

                        spacecounterinc = spacecounterinc + 1;
                        if (spacecounterinc != countchar)
                        {
                            c.print (" "); // testing for space
                            //c.print (" Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc + " cchar" + countchar + ": ");
                        }
                        //else if (spacecounter == strlength)
                        else
                        {
                            c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));
                            //c.print ( " cchar in else" + countchar + " Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc);
                        }
                    }
                    if (countchar != 0)
                    {
                        countchar = countchar - 1; // next char after for loop is done

                    }

                    c.println (" ");




                    //countchar = countchar + 1; // back to default
                    /////////// remove /////////
                    //spacecounter = 0; // including

                    //for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++)
                    //{
                    //countchar = (strlength - 2);



                }
            c.println (" ");
        }
    }
}

// The "CompContest1" class.
import java.awt.*;
import hsa.Console;

public class CompContest1
{
    static Console c;           // The output console

    public static void main (String [] args)
    {
        c = new Console ();
        int strlength, x, spacecounterinc, spacecounterdec, spacecounter;
        int countchar = 0, looplength;
        int answer = 1 ;
        //c.println ("Would you like to start the word app (type '1' for yes '0' for no");
        //answer = c.readInt();
        answer = 1;
        while (answer != 0)
        {
            c.println ("Please enter a word enter '0' to quit");


            countchar = 0;
            String str1 = new String ();
            str1 = c.readString (); // user input
            strlength = str1.length ();
            //c.print (strlength);
            // set a var to hold the length of the vertical amount of lines required
            looplength = (strlength * 2);
            //
            spacecounter = strlength;


            for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 1 ; i++)
            {
                spacecounterdec = strlength; //
                while (spacecounterdec >= 1)
                {

                    spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1;
                    if (spacecounterdec != countchar)
                    {
                        c.print (" "); // testing for space
                    }
                    else
                    {
                        c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));

                    }
                }

                spacecounterinc = 0; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately
                while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2))
                {

                    spacecounterinc++; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already
                    if (spacecounterinc != countchar)
                    {
                        c.print (" "); // testing for space
                    }
                    //else if (spacecounter == strlength)
                    else
                    {
                        //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar);
                        c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));
                        //countchar++;
                    }
                }
                if (countchar != strlength - 1)
                {
                    countchar++; // next char after for loop is done
                }

                c.println (" ");
            }


            spacecounter = strlength;
            countchar = strlength;

            //looplength = (strlength * 2);
            //
            spacecounter = 0;
            countchar = (strlength - 2); //the last character in strlength

            for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++)
                //for (int i = strlength ; i >= 0 ; i = i - 1) don't use 4 sure
                {
                    spacecounterdec = strlength; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately
                    while (spacecounterdec >= 1)
                    {

                        spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already
                        if (spacecounterdec != countchar)
                        {
                            c.print (" "); // testing for space
                        }
                        else
                        {
                            //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar);
                            c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));


                        }
                    }

                    spacecounterinc = 0; //
                    //c.print ("part4");
                    while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2))
                    {

                        spacecounterinc = spacecounterinc + 1;
                        if (spacecounterinc != countchar)
                        {
                            c.print (" "); // testing for space
                            //c.print (" Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc + " cchar" + countchar + ": ");
                        }
                        //else if (spacecounter == strlength)
                        else
                        {
                            c.print (str1.charAt (countchar));
                            //c.print ( " cchar in else" + countchar + " Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc);
                        }
                    }
                    if (countchar != 0)
                    {
                        countchar = countchar - 1; // next char after for loop is done

                    }

                    c.println (" ");




                    //countchar = countchar + 1; // back to default
                    /////////// remove /////////
                    //spacecounter = 0; // including

                    //for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++)
                    //{
                    //countchar = (strlength - 2);



                }
            c.println (" ");
        }
    }
}

Feb 28th, 2006, 7:26 PM	#1
Eric the Red Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 214 Rep Power: 0	Creating algorithms-> talent or experience? Now whenever i'm working on a algorithm it seems that I take a lot longer than other people around me working on the same algorithm. I can't explain why. Do u think that with practice creating algorithms i'll be more efficient creating them, example: faster creation time/ less debug time? or do u think that there's a certain point where talent far outweights experience? Maybe an experienced programmer can answer.

Feb 28th, 2006, 7:42 PM	#2
ReggaetonKing Sexy Programmer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 891 Rep Power: 3	yeah, it will be very effective! I, myself, talk from experience! And as for talent outweighing experience...I don't know about that, You gain experience as you go along on what ever you wish to do continuously. Experienced programmers far beat out newbies in a matter of knowing what they are talking about and having to dealt with that knowledge/something for some time versus a newbie new to something and haven't full something's potential. It's true that people can acceleration in something faster than others but what if they are missing out on something that while learning that something. Example, experienced drivers versus teens with their permits. It's all about experience in this matter just like how the world is today. Experience drivers have driven a lot more than that teen even if the teen gets the hang of it in a shorter time period than the experienced driver did when he/she was first driving. Who cares who learn what first or faster, its all about experience and having to deal with it for extended time period! __________________ I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code!

Mar 1st, 2006, 6:22 AM	#9
.TD Programmer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 36 Rep Power: 0	Making sure the problem is well defined in your head as well as where else it maybe defined (and that these definitions match) is vital, without knowing exactly what you are trying to solve then you probably won't get a solution to it! __________________ Go away before I replace you with a very small shell script. -- Get FireFox!

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Feb 28th, 2006, 7:46 PM	#3
Jimbo Battle Programmer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bellevue, WA, USA Posts: 748 Rep Power: 3	There is a small factor (IMHO) relating your natural thought processes to developing algorithms, but experience is probably the main factor.

Feb 28th, 2006, 9:20 PM	#4
Eric the Red Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 214 Rep Power: 0	Anyone else have anything to add?

Feb 28th, 2006, 10:05 PM	#5
thechristelegacy Expert Programmer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Somerset, Pa Posts: 707 Rep Power: 4	Exerience usually seams to increase speed. For example, as a young adult (old teen), I wash dishes. When I started I was slow. I've been there for a while now, and I'm in charge of the new people, and from who I've worked with throughout the entire restraunt, whether it be a cook, a dishwasher, a bus boy, etc, the longer they've worked, the faster they are at it.

Feb 28th, 2006, 10:38 PM	#6
Navid Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 187 Rep Power: 4	Well how do you come up with your algorithms? The way I solve algorithms is broken down into steps: 1. I ask myself in pure English: "What is it that I want my program to do exactly?" 2. I get a sheet of paper and a pencil and figure out how I'm going to do that (it comes along with experience). 3. Translate it to the computer. This might not look helpful to some people, but you'd be surprise how many people sit there trying to code something when they don't even know what they want themselves.

Mar 1st, 2006, 8:22 PM	#10
Eric the Red Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 214 Rep Power: 0	Here's the algorithm that took me an hour. Which probably takes you guys like 30 mins. Look at the output if you want. (Toggle Plain Text) // The "CompContest1" class. import java.awt.; import hsa.Console; public class CompContest1 { static Console c; // The output console public static void main (String [] args) { c = new Console (); int strlength, x, spacecounterinc, spacecounterdec, spacecounter; int countchar = 0, looplength; int answer = 1 ; //c.println ("Would you like to start the word app (type '1' for yes '0' for no"); //answer = c.readInt(); answer = 1; while (answer != 0) { c.println ("Please enter a word enter '0' to quit"); countchar = 0; String str1 = new String (); str1 = c.readString (); // user input strlength = str1.length (); //c.print (strlength); // set a var to hold the length of the vertical amount of lines required looplength = (strlength 2); // spacecounter = strlength; for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 1 ; i++) { spacecounterdec = strlength; // while (spacecounterdec >= 1) { spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1; if (spacecounterdec != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space } else { c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); } } spacecounterinc = 0; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2)) { spacecounterinc++; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already if (spacecounterinc != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space } //else if (spacecounter == strlength) else { //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar); c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); //countchar++; } } if (countchar != strlength - 1) { countchar++; // next char after for loop is done } c.println (" "); } spacecounter = strlength; countchar = strlength; //looplength = (strlength * 2); // spacecounter = 0; countchar = (strlength - 2); //the last character in strlength for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++) //for (int i = strlength ; i >= 0 ; i = i - 1) don't use 4 sure { spacecounterdec = strlength; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately while (spacecounterdec >= 1) { spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already if (spacecounterdec != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space } else { //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar); c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); } } spacecounterinc = 0; // //c.print ("part4"); while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2)) { spacecounterinc = spacecounterinc + 1; if (spacecounterinc != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space //c.print (" Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc + " cchar" + countchar + ": "); } //else if (spacecounter == strlength) else { c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); //c.print ( " cchar in else" + countchar + " Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc); } } if (countchar != 0) { countchar = countchar - 1; // next char after for loop is done } c.println (" "); //countchar = countchar + 1; // back to default /////////// remove ///////// //spacecounter = 0; // including //for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++) //{ //countchar = (strlength - 2); } c.println (" "); } } } // The "CompContest1" class. import java.awt.; import hsa.Console; public class CompContest1 { static Console c; // The output console public static void main (String [] args) { c = new Console (); int strlength, x, spacecounterinc, spacecounterdec, spacecounter; int countchar = 0, looplength; int answer = 1 ; //c.println ("Would you like to start the word app (type '1' for yes '0' for no"); //answer = c.readInt(); answer = 1; while (answer != 0) { c.println ("Please enter a word enter '0' to quit"); countchar = 0; String str1 = new String (); str1 = c.readString (); // user input strlength = str1.length (); //c.print (strlength); // set a var to hold the length of the vertical amount of lines required looplength = (strlength 2); // spacecounter = strlength; for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 1 ; i++) { spacecounterdec = strlength; // while (spacecounterdec >= 1) { spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1; if (spacecounterdec != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space } else { c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); } } spacecounterinc = 0; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2)) { spacecounterinc++; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already if (spacecounterinc != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space } //else if (spacecounter == strlength) else { //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar); c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); //countchar++; } } if (countchar != strlength - 1) { countchar++; // next char after for loop is done } c.println (" "); } spacecounter = strlength; countchar = strlength; //looplength = (strlength * 2); // spacecounter = 0; countchar = (strlength - 2); //the last character in strlength for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++) //for (int i = strlength ; i >= 0 ; i = i - 1) don't use 4 sure { spacecounterdec = strlength; // the spacecounterinc++ defaults to 1 fortunately while (spacecounterdec >= 1) { spacecounterdec = spacecounterdec - 1; // assigns to length of string must be 1 due to the fact the dec loop used the print location already if (spacecounterdec != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space } else { //c.print ("countchar = " + countchar); c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); } } spacecounterinc = 0; // //c.print ("part4"); while (spacecounterinc <= (strlength - 2)) { spacecounterinc = spacecounterinc + 1; if (spacecounterinc != countchar) { c.print (" "); // testing for space //c.print (" Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc + " cchar" + countchar + ": "); } //else if (spacecounter == strlength) else { c.print (str1.charAt (countchar)); //c.print ( " cchar in else" + countchar + " Spacecounterinc " + spacecounterinc); } } if (countchar != 0) { countchar = countchar - 1; // next char after for loop is done } c.println (" "); //countchar = countchar + 1; // back to default /////////// remove ///////// //spacecounter = 0; // including //for (int i = 0 ; i <= strlength - 2 ; i++) //{ //countchar = (strlength - 2); } c.println (" "); } } }

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Programming Forums > Application Development > Other Programming Languages

Creating algorithms-> talent or experience?