Arla

Since this is the one post so far that actually offers some reasons (although the end note isn't very useful, can you explain, what is refactoring? I've not heard of it before, improved intellisense? What is that too, is that the fill in for methods inside classes or something else?

OpenLoop

refactoring: refactoring is new, so let's say you have a function foo(). it is called by 20 other functions and you want to rename it to loo(), what would you do? in the old VS, you'll have to search and replace every reference to foo() in your program and change it to loo(). in VS 2005, all you have to do, is right click on the definition of foo(), select refactoring-->rename and type in loo(). All the references will be automatically updated too.

intellisense: u're right, it's code completion feature for methods inside classes, however in VS 2005 it is extended to all methods in the framework.

Arla

Eh, okay, refactoring doesn't sound that useful to me, simply because I mostly use external classes, and I doubt that it does anything with those if I rename a function in my external class.

Intellisense, sure, it's somewhat useful, but again #D seems to have a reasonable handle on that, and while not perfect, I prefer it in an open source piece of software, because I can change how it works.

I'm still curious what Microsofts goal is with VS Express, or where the catch is, because I'm sure there is one.

uman

The catch is that it sucks compared to the real editions of VS; it's a wonderful IDE but the non-gratis versions are worlds better. They want you to see how good VS is and buy the real one.

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OpenLoop

With all the talk about SharpDevelop, I decided to download it and try it. WOW, how familiar, 90% the same interface as V.S. 2003. And if you thing that if they didn't have to design an interface, they will have more time to focus on usefull things, then you're wrong. SharpDevelop adds nothing special over Visual Studio 2003 except changing a "project" to a "Combine", adding a wizard to help you setup the code completion wizard, and a "Clown fish" exception in the "about" form.

I would credit SharpDevelop for being more professional than usual Open Source IDEs starting with its descriptive name (unlike Anjuta) and the lack of happy penguins here and there. However, when Microsoft spends the time and money to design a good interface and think of new features like code completion and code folding, I like to be fair to them and use their product instead.

Cerulean

I think KDevelop is pretty self explanatory, as is MonoDevelop. Anyways, c'mon, most application names bear no meaning to their purpose - "Acrobat", "Outlook"... I think the open source equivalents from KDE (KPDF and KMail respectively) are better named, even. So eat that

As for this particular matter, I haven't used either for more than a few minutes. Visual C++ vs KDevelop, however, is a completely different matter. KDevelop is very impressive, intuitive, and flexible. Flexibility is where I find most open source development environments shine.

nnxion

I totally agree.

Too bad this doesn't work on plain old C/C++ (don't know bout C++.NET or anything)

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DaWei

Refactoring isn't just some fancy renaming process. Refactoring means to redesign the product (usually as an improvement) without affecting its external operation in any apparent way. Rewriting "foo" for improved performance without affecting its interface to its users in any way would be an example. One might call the replacement "loo" or keep the name, "foo".

Here's a real-life example: In 1977 I built a parcel sorter for the State Department. It was built around a Z80 and programmed in assembly language. Five years later there was some difficulty in obtaining spares and, also, a desire to increase the size of the destination database. I completely rebuilt the system using a 68000 and coded it in C. A lot of performance improvements and more reliable components were naturally available to me after a 5-year advance in technology. Despite the radical makeover, we walked into the facility, unplugged the old unit, plugged in the new unit, ran a few tests, and they were on the air. All this was prior to the advent of the buzzword, "refactoring", of course. Moral: Academic or high-priestly pronouncements to the contrary, a large number of GOOD NEW THANGS have existed for years, some, like OOD, going as far back as the invention of the wheel.

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OpenLoop

why call it _______________when you can call it
cp _________________________copy
mv _________________________move
awk ________________________replace
pine ________________________email
man ________________________manual
cmp ________________________compare
vi __________________________edit

why use this:_____________to do this:
nice________________________Set the priority of a command or job
yes_________________________Print a string until interrupted
tee_________________________Redirect output to multiple files
touch_______________________Change file timestamps
top_________________________List processes running on the system

This is just a small example of the great open source naming methodology.

I'm not against open source. I use Gimp instead of photoshop and I like it (except for the name) but one must ask some questions. I mean, would it kill you to type "copy" instead of "cp"?

see http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...commands&hl=en for a listing of BASH commands

thechristelegacy

In response to all the flaming....

"Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends, why can't we be friensd, oh why can't we be friends..."