Jill

Hi everyone. I was an idiot and picked the wrong major in college. I have a BA in advertising and a minor in business.

I am currently trying to obtain software development skills because I've heard so many good things about the field. Right now I am a web developer at a small firm.

Basically my question is this: when it comes to finding a software development job, how important is it to specifically have a computer-science related degree instead of a degree in another field? Would you suggest I further my education? And if so, what would be the best option? (bachelors, associates, masters, certificate)

Thank you !

CoderGuru

Um... It all depends on what you want to do and where you want to do it. I worked first hand with people who have their four year degree in computer science and I wouldn't delegate even the smallest of jobs to them because they frankly don't have the know how to do what I need.

A huge problem with a degree, especially in NY where I lived is that to be SUNY approved it has to go through a huge approval and accreditation process then follow specific guidelines for that industry. The problem with that is by the time 3 years of research and accreditation are complete, the information you finally decide to teach is so out dated it's useless.

Again it also depends on your field, sure the COBALT and Java I learned in the only 2 semesters I took in college would do me good in some fields, but nothing I will ever use.

Finally anything you do in class you can do in a 10th of the time by yourself. There is so much free information out there. In fact that goes for almost any industry. The $160.00 book you pay for in a science class is nothing more than information you can get on wikipedia or google. College in the computer industry is ussualy only good for people who can't motivate themselves to truly accomplish what they want, and for that piece of paper to say "I followed the system, now give me a higher pay then someone without this". The true experts that you would want working for you are the ones who were so interested they taught themselves without any formal training. Them are the people who will get the big bucks and produce what a leading industry is looking for.

So the question at hand is what do u want to do? You said your a web developer at a local firm. Does that mean you know how to work wordpress? Do you know basic dream weaver? Can you make a whole site in HTML and notpad? If you goal is web design, make some long term goals of things you would like to developed and do it. If you have good social skills the best paid option is to find some clients (Every town has dozens of small businesses who need a website) and build up a portfolio. This portfolio would ideally turn into a long term self employed business, or at least a good demonstration of what you can do to a future employer.

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Dallas Web Design | Texas Web Design | www.ChillAxen.com | Renee C. Greco Fund

Jill

Thank you so much for the quick response.. your advice is very helpful.

Right now I develop websites using XHTML, XML and CSS. I also know Flash and Javascript. And yes, I design from notepad. I love web development and want to continue working with it, it's just my boss wants me to study software development as well. Says he thinks I have what it takes to succeed in that. He's even assigned me an expert to follow around and learn from and everything. We'll be starting in August and that's why I came here for your advice.

The only thing I know for sure about the development I'll be doing is that I'll be using Adobe Flex. I've never used it before, but my boss told me he definitely wants me to use it. I've heard that I need to learn C, C++ and Java, so I've been trying to study up on all of those too.

I'd really rather not pay any more money for more schooling (already $65,000 in debt for my dumb Advertising degree), so I really liked what you had to say.. and you made some really good points. Thank you!

Benoit

wtf.. That feels like a slap in the face to me. College education is not worthless. I've learned an incredible amount and had unique experiences which I wouldn't get if I were just studying on my own in my basement. If you think getting a formal education in the field intrinsically means someone is any less motivated than someone who doesn't, you're wrong.

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CoderGuru

Name one thing that you did in a college setting you could not have done without college. Any application you developed you could have done on your own, any experience you gained, including working with a team, correctly planing your projects, presenting the projects to a board, you could have done on your own. I believe good will hunting quotes this perfectly:

"See, the sad thing about a guy like you is in 50 years you're gonna start doin some thinkin on your own and you're gonna come up with the fact that there are two certaintees in life. One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a f*ckin education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library"

BTW don't take my opinion to such heart man... This is the internet and you don't even know me to get offended by my opinion, not to mention that it's just my view on it. Does not mean it's correct to everyone, just how I feel from my own personal experience with MANY college graduates and personal experience wasted taking college classes (all around, not just in computers).

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Dallas Web Design | Texas Web Design | www.ChillAxen.com | Renee C. Greco Fund

CoderGuru

I've never actually used Flex but what the website said is its a tool to help develop web sites for use with flash. Personally I would never suggest to use flash for the majority of a web application, but that's just a personal take as all my clients love enjoying the benefits of search engine traffic which flash limits.

If you do know flash though, that means you know ActionScript which is sorta like Java. I HIGHLY doubt you will need to learn C to use any adobe product. From my experience mostly any that involve scripting use ActionScript or JavaScript.

If you boss is pushing you to do it, and willing to do it on the clock, then screw it why not? If anything you gain experience to add to your next resume. Keep in mind as you gain knowledge you expand your resume to other companies so always use that as an incentive for raises. Sure they paid for you to get the training but that's a risk a company takes. Now that you have it, you should be paid as someone with that training would get paid.

As for in a notepad, that's always a great skill, and how I do most my stuff (Via Visual Studio) but to be honest it is extremely unproductive. Might want to get yourself a copy of Adobe Dreamweaver which is really nice. You can ussualy pick up an academic version rather cheap.

If you company is providing you flash and flex, assuming there legally doing it, they more than likely have a license for Macromedia too you can ask for. It will save you TONS of time and it really got better in the years. I used to not use it cause it added TONS of junk HTML i didnt want, but no long really does it from what I am told. (My designer uses it and i get his original HTML before I put my magic into it and its always extremely search engine friendly so I'd assume its better than 5 years ago when I tried it.

Again if your company is paying for it why not either way, but a good thing to learn if you really like web development is a backend scripting language such as php or ASP.net (I suggest ASP.net) so that you can take your current web development skills to the next level and build dynamic pages. Have you ever made a layout with 15 pages and wanted to change say a image? You then have to go change each and every page? With just basic scripting skills you can turn that tedious work into just 1 file you edit and all update with it =]

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Dallas Web Design | Texas Web Design | www.ChillAxen.com | Renee C. Greco Fund

Jimbo

Aw, c'mon guys. College isn't a must, and it isn't worthless. Usually it's of great value for someone who's actually studying something they enjoy and want to continue (admittedly, there's a lot of folks not doing that). And it's important to employers even if mainly for it's symbolic value. Yes, someone with a degree will have a higher starting pay than someone without. A few years in however, and it'll equalize pretty quickly.

The true experts I want working for me are the ones who are interested in the work, and the ones who have some amount of understanding about what good code is. Knowing about algorithms and how systems work weighs heavily in the latter. Also, a lot of the folks I work with who are in senior positions (and well deserving of them) were self-taught if only because there wasn't the same educational facilities that exist today.

Not everyone's going for an Ivy League school. My college education was under $20k, and easily made up for in the couple years since. If nothing else, college will give people a push to get through it, and a guide of what to study for a well-rounded education (how many people wanting to write software are going to study hardware design on their own?). Anyone who stick around the industry will learn more in the first couple years on the job than any college program could provide, but the content learned between the two is very different as well.

++ and ++

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