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| View Poll Results: Do you believe in Free choice or Fate? | |||
| I believe in Fate. |
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2 | 10.00% |
| I believe in Free Will. |
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9 | 45.00% |
| I believe that both exist at the same time. |
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6 | 30.00% |
| I dont really know. |
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2 | 10.00% |
| Quit adding poll options and get to the damn post already! |
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1 | 5.00% |
| Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#21 |
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Hobbyist Programmer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 134
Rep Power: 2
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Re: Free will or Predestination?
i could wafle about your explination but i'll just say that i disagree because ultimately the person throwing the die decides how hard and on what angle they will throw it, this variable cannot be controlled other than suggestion (is there a lot of pressure riding on the outcome? is the person cocky or nervous? etc.) even still the general rule of a dies randomness is the fact that you're not supposed to look at the number positions before/while releasing the die so you can never know how to throw it to rig the game.
in summary the person controls the the speed/angle of their throw conciously and the speed/angle determine more of where the die will land, more than say; the wind speed at the time or if your hands are sweaty.. the roll is still random, none the less. when i was young i was looking for a way to rig a dies outcome in monopoly because i was sick of landing on park lane and declaring bankrupcy so i figured (just like flipping a coin) you can influence it's outcome ever so subtly by rolling the die at roughly the same configuration each time. i was able to roll whatever number was on top of the die when i threw it (less than half the time). |
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#22 |
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Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 20
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Re: Free will or Predestination?
Fate.
Lectric Pharaoh explained it well with the dice. Jimbo's life is a bunch of chemical reactions is exactly how I've thought of it ever since I began 'thinking about this. Whatever 'choices' we make, no matter the subject, are determined by our physical environment and our past history (memories of childhood, religion etc) which determines how we perceive our environment. The chemical construction of our brain determines the final outcome or choice that is made. The only reason I started thinking about these things was because of my family's religious beliefs: I think Free Will is necessary for the validity of Christianity, and so I'm currently agnostic. Some people think some meta-physical thing like a soul has a role to play in decision making. Even if that were true, I would argue that fate would still trump freewill. For example, suppose you were created by a god, this god would have given you your soul, your genetic construction, your initial mental capacity, your parents or family, your birthplace, etc etc. At the very beginning of your existence everything about you is 'Determined'. You have no say in where you were born or weather your parents are Islamic extremists or Wall street millionaires. All of these things in which you had no influence, determine, in a completely unpredictable way, who and what you will be and what you will do at every point in your life. |
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#23 |
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Programmer
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Rep Power: 0
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This is a case if IFELSE situation
In my humble opinion this is exactly like the IFELSE situation.
We have a series of options prepared for us and all we can do is select one that fits the situation. So it is part of both. I guess probably that's why a philisophical question is posted in programming forum. After all God is the master programmer.
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#24 | |
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Caffeinated Neural Net
![]() Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dry west coast of Canada
Posts: 1,034
Rep Power: 5
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Re: Free will or Predestination?
Quote:
Say you have two subatomic particles in proximity; these particles will interact in a defined way depending on their type and state. Add in more particles, build up atoms, molecules, and larger structures, and the interactions become more complex, and virtually impossible to model with 100% accuracy because of this complexity. However, these systems are no less governed by rules than a simple system is. The particles making up a very large system, such as the universe, will likewise behave in a completely fixed fashion. I don't like the term 'predetermined', as that implies some kind of intelligence at work, but assuming you had absolute information about the universe (down to every last particle and iota of energy), infinite computing power, and a complete understanding of the physical laws in place (as opposed to just theories), you could predict the system at any point. You could know what someone was thinking, what the weather would be like on a particular planet exactly 72349589 days in the future, etc. Another analogy would be a computer program. The CPU executes single instructions, and while you can have a simple program or program segment made up of only a few instructions, having a massive program made up of millions, billions, or even more instructions does not change the fundamental nature of the system. However, if I gave you a simple program with only a couple of instructions, and asked you to tell me what it did, you probably could, whereas even an expert assembly or machine language programmer would have a hard time seeing the 'big picture' when looking at a raw 200-megabyte binary dump. I daresay that they would find it impossible without the use of additional tools and a good deal of time to reverse-engineer the code's purpose. By the same token, our actions, thoughts, etc are effectively unpredictable, as there is no entity with sufficient knowledge of the systems involved coupled with the capability to process this information fast enough to yield a prediction of an event before the event's occurrence. Do you now see what I'm getting at?
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And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot. - Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick |
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