Wizard1988

I'm with you guys on this. The high school I used to go had two programming classes Java and Advanced Java, (there was almost no difference) the classes ended up being combined. After taking the first class I knew that programming was going to be my thing. The teacher himself didn't know much Java himself, but he did have high expectations. I had to look up pretty much everything, it felt like an independent study. What I did learn from the class was that the information is out on the Internet, most of the time, you just have to look. What I haven't realized until recently is how much easier it is to learn a language now then it might have been before the Internet. DaWei might have something to say about how this..

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JG-Webdesign

Booooze

Yup, I've seen that many times. Those people are usually morons. I'm serious. They're actually idiots. They take CS class in school expecting it too be easy, thinking just because they get to be on a computer, it will be easier then say history or some other elective. Those are usually the gamers who are stupid and don't do well in school generally anyways.

bigguy

Yeah I'm like you wizard, we didnt have programming classes, but we had programming books. So I had taking all the computer classes already once by 10 grade, soi I took them over again 11th and 12th grades just to read those books, and learn. I was self taught. My computer teacher knew a little about VB6, I soon had my own little corner, typing away on 3 computers at a time learning how to program and run linux and windows together. lol good times, good times. Thats where my quote about downloading music comes from. I got caught, cause I was using up all the schools bandwidth.

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Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heal that has crushed it. - Mark Twain

Destruction leads to a very rough road, but it also breeds creation.

Infinite Recursion

I completely agree with all of you.... In my personal opinion, these type of people should not even be in this field. Before, during, and after college I learned mostly through trial-and-error. A programmer's job is not just writing code, but they would need to know how to analyze and solve problems as well.

Sometimes I just want to be an instructor in an entry level computer science / software engineering course so I can weed out those people who expect everything to fall in their lap.

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http://jasonpowers.net

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."

lectricpharaoh

On the main page, the title got truncated, and only "Am I alone in thinking..." showed up. My first thought was that it was an anti-DaWei rant thread, but it's nice to see it's not.

I agree as well. I don't think you're old fashioned for wanting to read on your own, or experiment. The vast majority of people, if not all of them, learn better through experience than by being told the answers. About the only time experimentation may be a bad idea is when there is some significant cost or risk involved. Even then, it might be worth it.

Learning from others often takes the form of asking questions, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, there are other ways. Reading books and tutorials is one that you mentioned, but observation is another. If you see how someone solves a problem, and you have a similar problem, you can quite likely adapt the solution.

I don't get people like this. I've known some too, and it always amazes me that people can be so utterly bereft of a clue. They've got no problem asking for help, but when they get it, they suddenly decide that they know better, and they ignore the help. It never seems to occur to them that the person they ask for help (who has already solved the problem) just might know what they're talking about, and be able to offer worthwhile input.

My response in your situation might have been to show this other student that my program was working, and thus "maybe, just maybe, you should listen to me", but in actuality, it would probably have taken a less-helpful form.

Another attitude that really annoys me is thatof people who ask for help, and when you try to explain from the basics, they get upset and demand that you give them "just the solution, and not all this other information". It's like someone with no math knowledge asking you to teach them algebra, but getting upset when you first try to teach them basic arithmetic. Again, I don't waste my time on such idiots (unless, of course, there's compensation involved).
I can't recall where I heard or read it, but there's a saying that goes something like "a smart person learns from their own mistakes, and a wise person learns from the mistakes of others".

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Seif

This thread should be retitled to todays "students" and not programmers. being the fact that most of the people here agreeing with you are 18, i find it hard to take their opinions credible (with no offense intended) on "todays programmers", as it appears to me that you have no idea what "todays programmers" are let alone being too young to judge against "yesterdays programmers".

being a recent graduate at the age of 22, i feel i have no place to judge on todays programmers, or yesterdays. Yes there were some piss poor students at my university who couldn't grasp the concept of individual research, but these people couldnt keep the pace and ended dropping out of university. 20 people at the start and only 3 graduating three years later, (only me with a 1st may i add ), to give a good example of what i mean. With record high numbers of going for higher education this is only to be expected. yes there may be more dumbass's about in higher education but there are also more gems shining through. Gems that could not have made it into university 10 or 20 years ago due to cost etc.

I personally see myself as one who has succeded but would have never have made it to university years ago due to being from a poor background.

Also I do not see why it makes you so mad ? you don't need to acknowledge them or reply in a forum post to someone that is stuck. Either ignore them or gracefully help them. Theres no need for ego filled elitist responses, unless of course you are not the social type.

Wizard1988

It just annoys the hell out of me that some people think its "cool" to take a computer class. They think they will be commenting on their friends MySpace or playing games. That is not what those classes are about. If you sign up for the class you should be willing to do the work.

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JG-Webdesign

Jimbo

I agree. I also just graduated and started working with "real" programmers, and it's a world or three different from at school. Not to mention, when people are rated based on performance, slacking like that would never fly (at least, not at my job).

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