View Single Post
Old May 15th, 2008, 8:29 PM   #16
MiKuS
Hobbyist Programmer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 134
Rep Power: 2 MiKuS is on a distinguished road
Re: Free will or Predestination?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lectricpharaoh View Post
This is an interesting point, and echoes what I've believed for a long time.

To explain, let me give an example about randomness. Imagine you're rolling a six-sided die. What number comes up will depend on the variables involved, such as the position of the die as it left your hand, the height above the surface you're rolling it on, what kind of surface, the amount of 'spin' you imparted to the die, material and shape of the die, and so on. Even nigh-imperceptible factors, such as the Earth's spin, air currents, or position of the moon could affect things, as all exert some influence, however minuscule. In fact, in any system, there will be an infinite number of factors exerting influence, but only a small number of these will have a significant impact; as such, only these factors need to be considered in most cases.

Now, if one could roll an identical die in an identical way on two separate occasions, and every single factor was identical, then the result would be the same. Randomness is simply the label we've come up with when we cannot control the inputs to a great enough extent to have certainty of the outcome.

Now take a biological system. Every such system is extremely complex, and the factors that exert a measurable influence are far more numerous, making it even harder to make predictions. However, just because we cannot predict the outcome does not make it any less fixed. Since we cannot measure every factor (due to their number being infinite), we must settle for measuring only those we believe to weigh significantly in the outcome. In many systems, however, even this number is so great as to make the prediction come after the actual event. When I was a kid, I read a book 'When HARLIE Was One' about an AI; at one point, the AI was at risk of being terminated and sought to make itself useful by having a 'Graphic Omniscient Device' extension built. Here's an excerpt from the book after G.O.D. had been approved:
Yes, I'm rambling now. My point, though, is that if everything is fixed, there cannot be free will. However, there can be the appearance of it, since as far as we can tell, it's not fixed. To use another analogy, imagine you go see a movie. The ending is the same regardless of whether you've seen the movie before, but if you've not seen it before, you can still enjoy it. It has the appearance of being unpredictable to the audience, but that's all.
In your post you mention that when rolling a die many many factors contribute to where it lands, a butterfly flapping it's wings on the other side of the each could even have an impact on the outcome of the die, right? This theory can apply to things like weather, rolling a die and whatever else (known as the butterfly effect), it seems impossible that our decisions are predetermined by a system of chaos. While the neural network in our brains is as random as a fractal; there is method to this madness, I control my body more then merely perceiving reality and acting on that, I dream where my own laws of attraction apply, I meditate where I can clearly block out reality and substitute my own, I know that reality is still there, but in my head time has no meaning thus the laws of chaos theory do no apply. Our ability to escape reality and delve into the abyss that is our own mind is what separates us from other animals and what makes us free.

The secret to life is making the right decisions at the right time. If you really want something "fate" has not predetermined that you cannot achieve this, for it is the ability to make these decisions that makes us have free will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory (read about the butterfly effect here)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Thought (a good read)

As you can see, my beliefs are a mix of many religions, not just one.

EDIT: i'd like to add that i really like discussing philosophical topics like this, it really opens your mind to what reality really is. we spend so much time on things that are not vital to our survival. Life is a hard concept to grasp because it's meaning is open to interpretation. Life is different for everyone and because of that it doesn't necessarily mean that there is one ultimate truth. Reality is whatever you want it to be, just make the right choice.

Last edited by MiKuS; May 15th, 2008 at 8:46 PM. Reason: added more
MiKuS is offline   Reply With Quote