uman

If I've understood everything correctly:

K sold PFO, which is now owned by "cscgal", who also is the owner of a site called "DaniWeb"?

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Sane

I have no specific complaints, but I will comment.

Cscgal, you may underestimate the driving power behind a community feel for a forum.

There used to be a lot of unity here. I remember being constantly supported, directly and indirectly, by many regulars in the Python forum. In fact, my experience stems solely from many immensely informative threads we've had here by the gurus who would take away some of their own time, to share their common interests. And in all forums, people would talk about their individual goals, and their personal amibitions. We would help each other accomplish these individual goals, while others worked together on community and team projects.

Recently, these projects have all died out, and no one seems to be keeping PFO up to date with the fun things they've been doing. Grim is one of the few who has been keeping us up to date, and I'm a strong supporter of that. That is precisely what keeps the forums interesting-- people discussing their goals, personal ambitions, and projects. Maybe even most importantly, something we've often missed: support for each other. And that is precisely the driving force behind a community forum that specializes in people persuing computer science as a career, but more importantly, as a hobby.

So what is Jessehk up to? What is TheChristeLegacy up to? What about IR, Arevos, TitaniumDecoy and Uman? You know I used to have a remote idea, but now I couldn't tell you squat about anyone, except maybe that Ancient Dragon is still the king of MSDN, Narue is the queen of all things C, and Grumpy might not be so Grumpy any more. So people hardly seem to touch base now with their lives in computer programming, where in contrast, our activities used to be quite frequently discussed. Maybe they think we don't care?

And there are potentially many reasons for this downward slope in posts from computer science advocates. Some of these potential reasons have little to do with DaniWeb, and some of the reasons have everything to do with DaniWeb. The main reason I can think of is the "soulless" forum skin, as Uman pointed out. This place feels less and less like a specialized forum for computer science addicts, and more like a place for a tolerating few to help one-nighters with their homework.

For example, earlier this week I competed in a computer science contest. I had a lot of fun and would love to share some of the problems with you guys. But there's really no suitable forum for this. I've also forseen the possibility that no one will be interested, and the time I spend creating a discussion will go to waste (as it has often lately). I would also like to study with someone equally enthused for an upcoming competition, and maybe even pay one of you to tutor me. But I'm not sure if I should bother asking.

I'm not sure what can be done about it either. Sure you could switch the skin back, but will that get people talking about what they've been up to lately? Will it get people talking again about their goals, and posting the broken code to some webserver some talented person here has been coding up in secret? I have no idea. Other things could be done though, such as programming competitions, badges to reward the helpful contributors (tutorial authors, book reviewers, etc), more interesting post rankings (instead of just Hobbyist, Guru, etc...), and general changes with the main goal of giving computer science back to this forum.

In reality, things aren't bad. Honestly. I have fun here. So do keep up the good work. But for every place I've overstated the truth about how things used to be, compared to how they are now, I'm sure some have felt this way at some point too. I won't speak for David, but as he touched on some of these notes upon his departure, I have a feeling his opinions of PFO do not stray too far from my reasoning in this post.

Cheers.

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Waterloo's Canadian Computing Competition (CCC) - Stage 2 Problems, Solutions, and Test Data

Jessehk

So you really do care!



----
Dani,

I have no complaints [1], and in fact, there seem to be quite a few things that have improved. I don't pretend to know the factors that influence forum activity, but I wouldn't attribute the lower activity around here to anything you did directly.

[1] Except those smilies. I liked the old ones better.

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uman

Well Sane I've been up to nothing, which is probably why you don't know what I've been up to :-D

Edit: Also footnoting your comments is hecka cool.

__________________
Few people deserve to be compared to (Rush) Limbaugh, most of them were convicted at the Nuremburg trials.
--WilliamSChips on Slashdot

Jabo

I think it's stupid to say a thread that's more than a week/month/year old shouldn't be posted in and then turn around and say, this has been answered before, then point somebody to a thread that's 6 months old. If the information is relevant, and you insist on not answering questions that have been answered before, then don't gripe about old threads being posted in. And, yes, this has been the answer more than a couple (dozen) times here at PFO.

CSCgal, I think you're doing great. If I had any suggestions, I would make sure you knew.

Sane

For the most part, people griping about bumping old threads has little to do with the age of the thread, and everything to do with the post itself. It's often the case that the question's already been answered, the post adds nothing to the discussion, and a vicious cycle begins as people don't read the earlier posts to see what's already been said. I've benefited from a bumped post before, but that's only when the additional information is thoroughly explained, and contains a new insight relevant to the main topic.

Note: IR has branched my discussion into a second thread.

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cscgal

Hi,

I want to begin by thanking everyone for their comments. They are much appreciated. The overall vibe that I got from you guys is similar to what I have been thinking ... the site went downhill community-wise roughly a year ago, after the majority of the DevShed crew left, and Big_K stopped having the time to devote that PFO needed. When I acquired PFO, it got a new DaniWeb-inspired skin. However, the community, already rather downhill, wasn't strong enough at the time to overcome a new skin without losing a part of its identity. However, it doesn't have to be this way. A color scheme doesn't define a community. And we need to put effort in, together, to realize that

I'm going to try my best to rejuvinate the community. However, I want you guys to realize that online communities are 100% evolving, and therefore that means that there's always going to be fresh blood and there are always going to be those old timers and there will always be an evolving group of regulars. It's all about having a healthy mix ... Very few people stay addicted to a single forum for 10 years of their life, and the most die-hard PFO addicts will eventually move on (real life takes priority, etc). Therefore, there will always be a need to bring in fresh blood ... Besides, otherwise it just gets boring Therefore, I just want to make you guys a little less nervous about DaniWeb members coming here, or seeing new faces and saying that makes it no longer PFO, etc. As long as there is a healthy mix, that's the best that you can ask for, and it was always going to happen regardless of whether Kyle was still running the site or not. My expert opinion (as the owner of a forum with a quarter million members and a half million posts) is that PFO was never active for a long enough time to fully realize the complete lifecycle of an online community. Then, when it started to happen, as it inevitably does, the core community wasn't strong enough at the time to maintain its sense of identity through the process. People are going to come and go all the time ... and then some of them might even come back a year or two down the road when their lives are less busy ... that's just the nature of it. But what shouldn't happen is everyone leaving all at once We're going to fix that.

That being said, I want to thank Infinite Recursion for starting his thread about what we've all been up to lately. I definitely think that it's a big step in the right direction to getting everyone to know each other again.

Cheers!

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Everything Information Technology related all in one convenient interactive online publication and community

Jabo

I know my opinion isn't exactly welcome here, and I've probably already said what I'm going to say in some sense. Being new here, I can tell you from my newbie perspective the biggest problem with this site, and that's a combination of fallacies. First being the snobbery of established members who think they are above helping newbies or are tired of answering the same old questions time and time again. New people don't have this disdain for the uninformed/ignorant. This ties into the second, and that being the animosity and almost downright hostility towards new people here. I almost left for these very reasons, but I can't find a programming forums I like better, so I stayed despite it all.

Since things haven't really changed that much, and I can learn without a forum's help; as a matter of fact, I've learned more on my own than from help I've been given here; and since I've kind of gotten my legs about me now, I don't really see much reason to be here in the future. If people had been a little more kind around here, I most definately would have a different outlook towards this place.

This is not to start a flame-war or to disrespect anybody here. I just thought you may want to see how you look from a new member's perspective. And this is not directed towards all members here, but it only takes a couple of crayons to color a whole page, as I'm sure some of you know. Peace be with you.

cscgal

Thank you for the feedback. I'm not exactly sure why you said your feedback isn't welcome ... everyone should feel comfortable to express their personal opinions.

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DaniWeb IT Discussion Community
Everything Information Technology related all in one convenient interactive online publication and community

OpenLoop

This is normal, not only in online forums but in real life also. Few people will help you because, simply put, they don't have to. As a newbie, you have to put up with this and be persistent to learn new things.

This is also normal..ish. Well, most programmers I've met have an average to poor social skills. That, combined with the natural age-old human hostility toward people from outside of their tribes, result in the behavior you described. You should ignore these behavior and focus on the few people that welcome you.

That's my experience as well. A book is your best friend.

You're being selfish. If you don't like the way people behave around here, join them and start a change from inside. Shying away from problematic situations never solves anything.