Programming Forums > Application Development > C++

Dietrich · Mar 15th, 2007, 12:41 AM

I agree with bigK, learn Python. C or C++ syntax is just too difficult to read for a beginner that wants to learn on his/her own. Go to the Python.org website and download the latest version I think it is Python25 and install it. Python comes for a large number of different systems, like Windows, Linux, MacUnix, so download the right version. In the ".\Python25\Lib\idlelib\" folder you will find a file Idle.pyw, run that file, it is an IDE where you can write Python code in the editor and execute it as a program.

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# this is typical Python code

print '-' * 50
for x in range(10): print x
print "Hey I can code in Python!"

You can also use the Idle Python Shell (has >>> prompt), where you can test short Python code one liners on the fly. Type something like 355/113.0 and it will give you pi once you press the enter key.

Compared to C++ Python is a very high level language with a large amount of modules, a nifty memory manager, and many elegant ways to solve a problem.

This short Python code will print the calendar for the month of March 2007:

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import calendar

calendar.prmonth(2007, 3)

Want to know more, just ask in the Python forum here!

bl00dninja · Mar 15th, 2007, 2:26 AM

"wat" you need to do is try harder or learn to search better or give up. it's NOT that hard. read the tutorial a million times if it takes that. oh yeah, and stop that 1337 spelling crap, you come off like an ignorant asshole.

Soulstorm · Mar 15th, 2007, 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck

Seriously though I stated that as an opinion not a fact

Accepted. I also have my opinions. Besides, the way everyone learns a language is a personal matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck

I learnt C and C++ from 2 very good books by the author, Herbert Schildt, where the first version taught C and the second C++. And to start the C++ one the reader had to have read the C version (or know C by whatever means) first. For me it was a natural progression.

Allow me to disagree about Herbert here. He is the worst writer about programming books that I (and many other reviewers at accu.org) have ever seen. If that's your only resource, then allow me to suggest you buy yourself another book to see what those books make you miss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck

I find this misleading, there are virtually no differences between C and C++, except that C++ is a subset of C. Therefore virtually everything that is C is C++.

I imagine you want to say that C is a subset of C++, not the other way around. I will therefore answer to the corrected statement.

I disagree with you on this one, too. This is the reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Nearly a superset of C, C++ now supports most of C, with a few relevant exceptions (mostly of stronger typing restriction; see Compatibility of C and C++ for an exhaustive list of differences).

I think that implies that some code written in C will not compile in C++. I am sure more experienced members in here will have some examples to give you. I don't because I have only gotten involved with C a little. You can also look here to see some incompatibilities.

Duck · Mar 15th, 2007, 5:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulstorm

I imagine you want to say that C is a subset of C++, not the other way around. I will therefore answer to the corrected statement.

I disagree with you on this one, too. This is the reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia
Nearly a superset of C, C++ now supports most of C, with a few relevant exceptions (mostly of stronger typing restriction; see Compatibility of C and C++ for an exhaustive list of differences).

I think that implies that some code written in C will not compile in C++. I am sure more experienced members in here will have some examples to give you. I don't because I have only gotten involved with C a little. You can also look here to see some incompatibilities.

Yes some code written in C will not compile in C++, I did not deny this. I just said the differences are few and minor, which the wikipedia article implys also.

Seif · Mar 15th, 2007, 9:45 AM

I can see no possible benefit you would get from learning C instead of C++ on the off. Just more work when you need to make the switch in my opinion.

saut3r · Mar 15th, 2007, 1:03 PM

Thanks for all the posts.
And i never said i tried to learn both at the same time. I tried to learn C++ couldnt find a good program to run it on, so someone recommended me to learn python first.

bl00dninja · Mar 15th, 2007, 6:37 PM

probably the only major benefit would be in character strings and arrays...C forces you to deal with that issue. it just gives you a better understanding of what a char* actually is. although with new libraries, this is probably irrelevant.

DaWei · Mar 15th, 2007, 7:37 PM

Quote:

I tried to learn C++ couldnt find a good program to run it on,

What does that mean? Compiler? Pre-built program like "hello, world"???

Quote:

probably the only major benefit would be in character strings and arrays

You're joking. Or the Clydesdales have trampled you.

Soulstorm · Mar 16th, 2007, 4:45 AM

Quote:

it just gives you a better understanding of what a char* actually is.

A good book can give you a better understanding of what a char* is. Not a language.

grumpy · Mar 16th, 2007, 6:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck

Yes some code written in C will not compile in C++, I did not deny this. I just said the differences are few and minor, which the wikipedia article implys also.

One of the guiding principles of C++ was backward compatibility with the 1989 C standard, wherever possible.

There are some cases where code that will be accepted by a 1989-standard-compliant compiler will fail to compile, or compile with different results, when fed to a C++ compiler. Most of the code that won't compile uses features that are rarely used in C, or are generally considered poor practice in both C and C++. Annex C of the C++ standard describes the differences.

This situation changed with the 1999 C standard, which introduced several language and library features that are incompatible with C++ language and library features. Some of them are quite significant, to the extent that some features of C99 have the same name as some C++ features but different meaning. In fact, there is occasionally some speculation that some of the incompatibilities introduced in the 1999 C standard were deliberate (i.e. that some incompatibilities were introduced to increase incompatibilities with C++) because the specifications seem rather contrived eg relying on "compiler magic" -- something that the 1989 C standard went to some lengths to avoid -- or having a name that is the same as a C++ keyword but, in C99, is a macro which expands to a keyword with an underscore as a leading character. Since #define'ing keywords yields undefined behaviour in both languages, and names with leading underscores are reserved to implementations, this means there is no way of using those features in code without upsetting either a C or a C++ compiler. And some of the features (bool, true, false, complex) are the sort that programmers will often use.

Mar 15th, 2007, 12:41 AM	#11
Dietrich Professional Programmer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 434 Rep Power: 4	I agree with bigK, learn Python. C or C++ syntax is just too difficult to read for a beginner that wants to learn on his/her own. Go to the Python.org website and download the latest version I think it is Python25 and install it. Python comes for a large number of different systems, like Windows, Linux, MacUnix, so download the right version. In the ".\Python25\Lib\idlelib\" folder you will find a file Idle.pyw, run that file, it is an IDE where you can write Python code in the editor and execute it as a program. (Toggle Plain Text) # this is typical Python code print '-' * 50 for x in range(10): print x print "Hey I can code in Python!" # this is typical Python code print '-' * 50 for x in range(10): print x print "Hey I can code in Python!" You can also use the Idle Python Shell (has >>> prompt), where you can test short Python code one liners on the fly. Type something like 355/113.0 and it will give you pi once you press the enter key. Compared to C++ Python is a very high level language with a large amount of modules, a nifty memory manager, and many elegant ways to solve a problem. This short Python code will print the calendar for the month of March 2007: (Toggle Plain Text) import calendar calendar.prmonth(2007, 3) import calendar calendar.prmonth(2007, 3) Want to know more, just ask in the Python forum here! __________________ I looked it up on the Intergnats! Last edited by Dietrich; Mar 15th, 2007 at 12:57 AM.

Mar 15th, 2007, 2:26 AM	#12
bl00dninja Programming Guru Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: namespace std Posts: 1,246 Rep Power: 5	"wat" you need to do is try harder or learn to search better or give up. it's NOT that hard. read the tutorial a million times if it takes that. oh yeah, and stop that 1337 spelling crap, you come off like an ignorant asshole. __________________ i put on my robe and wizard hat... Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons.

Mar 15th, 2007, 6:37 PM	#17
bl00dninja Programming Guru Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: namespace std Posts: 1,246 Rep Power: 5	probably the only major benefit would be in character strings and arrays...C forces you to deal with that issue. it just gives you a better understanding of what a char* actually is. although with new libraries, this is probably irrelevant. __________________ i put on my robe and wizard hat... Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons.

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Mar 15th, 2007, 9:45 AM	#15
Seif Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 215 Rep Power: 3	I can see no possible benefit you would get from learning C instead of C++ on the off. Just more work when you need to make the switch in my opinion.

Mar 15th, 2007, 1:03 PM	#16
saut3r Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for all the posts. And i never said i tried to learn both at the same time. I tried to learn C++ couldnt find a good program to run it on, so someone recommended me to learn python first.

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Programming Forums > Application Development > C++

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