Programming Forums > Script Programming > Python

DaWei · Nov 16th, 2006, 7:44 PM

what a surprise

Dietrich · Nov 16th, 2006, 7:57 PM

Since quite a number of the Python eggheads, including GVR himself, are gainfully employed by Google, and Google gives a lot of support to Python development, it is not surprising to see all the effort in the direction of RAD. Wow, this was one of the longer sentences I ever wrote!

Mocker · Nov 17th, 2006, 5:06 AM

I just started getting into python and find it very easy to pick up, probably one of the easiest languages I've looked at . The only questions I've had to get help with were basically converting what I want to do from c++/php -> python (arrays/assoc array-> arrays/linked lists-> lists/dicts) and the way it handles most everything as a reference by default, which takes some getting used to. Also, I hate the space/tab requirements in the syntax, even though it makes the code easier to read

Arevos · Nov 17th, 2006, 6:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWei

I think you might agree that some of the forms of some of the abstractions (generators, etc.) approach obscurity without resulting in leaner code or clearer thought.

That's true. On the one hand, list comprehensions can result in clearer code:

 python Syntax (Toggle Plain Text) 
# Without
urls = []
for tag in soup.fetch_all("a"):
    urls.append(tag['href'])
 
# With
urls = [tag['href'] for tag in soup.fetch_all("a")]
# Without
urls = []
for tag in soup.fetch_all("a"):
    urls.append(tag['href'])

# With
urls = [tag['href'] for tag in soup.fetch_all("a")]

On the other hand...

 python Syntax (Toggle Plain Text) 
def q(s): 
  if len(s)<=1:return s
  return q([l for l in s[1:] if l<s[0]])+[s[0]]+q([g for g in s[1:] if g>=s[0]])
def q(s): 
  if len(s)<=1:return s
  return q([l for l in s[1:] if l<s[0]])+[s[0]]+q([g for g in s[1:] if g>=s[0]])

DaWei · Nov 17th, 2006, 9:43 AM

Yes. Nevertheless, I'm still quite enamored of the language. I also find it to be faster than PHP. That's based upon a single observation, the generation of the Basic Patterns tree for the tictactoe game, but it was clearly the case in that instance.

Dietrich · Nov 17th, 2006, 2:33 PM

Actually, I love the abstractions that Python provides to the more inquisitive mind. List comprehensions, generators, generator expressions, lambda, functional and meta programming are charming concepts that strike fear into the heart of the C/C++ crowd.

Arevos · Nov 17th, 2006, 3:28 PM

Hm. I don't know about that, Dietrich. You can do some very complex voodoo with templates in C++; just look at the Boost libraries.

And if you want something really complex, I'd recommend trying to learn Haskell. It really is on a whole other level.

DaWei · Nov 17th, 2006, 4:53 PM

Fear? I'm thinking you must know a different C/C++ crowd (teens?) than I do....

Game_Ender · Nov 18th, 2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dietrich

strike fear into the heart of the C/C++ crowd.

Have you actually seen the Boost MPL library? I wouldn't call it fear, mostly joy. That's what so great about python its a dynamic language that doesn't shackle you like Java.

DaWei · Nov 18th, 2006, 11:52 AM

On further reflection, I must confess that I considered that an utterly stupid statement, even lamer than the original post. A head where the sun don't shine isn't looking around at the real world.

Nov 16th, 2006, 7:44 PM	#11
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	what a surprise __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

Nov 16th, 2006, 7:57 PM	#12
Dietrich Professional Programmer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 434 Rep Power: 4	Since quite a number of the Python eggheads, including GVR himself, are gainfully employed by Google, and Google gives a lot of support to Python development, it is not surprising to see all the effort in the direction of RAD. Wow, this was one of the longer sentences I ever wrote! __________________ I looked it up on the Intergnats!

Nov 17th, 2006, 5:06 AM	#13
Mocker Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 223 Rep Power: 0	I just started getting into python and find it very easy to pick up, probably one of the easiest languages I've looked at . The only questions I've had to get help with were basically converting what I want to do from c++/php -> python (arrays/assoc array-> arrays/linked lists-> lists/dicts) and the way it handles most everything as a reference by default, which takes some getting used to. Also, I hate the space/tab requirements in the syntax, even though it makes the code easier to read __________________ #programmingforums relay - http://thegupstudio.com/cgi-bin/pforelay.cgi freelance scripts - http://ryanguthrie.com/index.html

Nov 17th, 2006, 9:43 AM	#15
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	Yes. Nevertheless, I'm still quite enamored of the language. I also find it to be faster than PHP. That's based upon a single observation, the generation of the Basic Patterns tree for the tictactoe game, but it was clearly the case in that instance. __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

Nov 17th, 2006, 2:33 PM	#16
Dietrich Professional Programmer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 434 Rep Power: 4	Actually, I love the abstractions that Python provides to the more inquisitive mind. List comprehensions, generators, generator expressions, lambda, functional and meta programming are charming concepts that strike fear into the heart of the C/C++ crowd. __________________ I looked it up on the Intergnats!

Nov 17th, 2006, 3:28 PM	#17
Arevos Programming Guru Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,499 Rep Power: 5	Hm. I don't know about that, Dietrich. You can do some very complex voodoo with templates in C++; just look at the Boost libraries. And if you want something really complex, I'd recommend trying to learn Haskell. It really is on a whole other level.

Nov 17th, 2006, 4:53 PM	#18
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	Fear? I'm thinking you must know a different C/C++ crowd (teens?) than I do.... __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

Nov 18th, 2006, 11:52 AM	#20
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	On further reflection, I must confess that I considered that an utterly stupid statement, even lamer than the original post. A head where the sun don't shine isn't looking around at the real world. __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

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