Programming Forums > Web Development and Design > JavaScript and Client-Side Browser Scripting

Writlaus · Mar 31st, 2006, 3:26 PM

A lot of people disable javascript, I've found out, and so my site (which I just created with quite a bit javascript in there) doesn't work for the most part, for those people. Is there some other clientside language that isn't viewed as "dangerous" as javascript seems to be? Or am I overestimating the amount of people who disable javascript?

Infinite Recursion · Mar 31st, 2006, 3:54 PM

You are probably over estimating the people who disable javascript. A lot of commercial sites require it...

Agent 47 · Mar 31st, 2006, 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite Recursion

A lot of commercial sites require it...

While that may be true, it does not mean it is right.

Last stats I saw placed the number of internet users browsing
without JavaScript at around 10%.

Writlaus, can you post a link to your site so we can see what's
happening and perhaps suggest some alternatives...?

Arevos · Mar 31st, 2006, 5:41 PM

Yep, ideally Javascript shouldn't add any extra functionality to your website. Improve it, yes, but it should always be possible to access a website without it, just as it should be possible to access a site without images or stylesheets if need be.

In reality, however, very few sites meet this standard.

DaWei · Mar 31st, 2006, 5:46 PM

Agent 47's opinion is the primary reason for my being in the middle of rewriting my site. The Grumpy tutorial will run either way, and I'm working on the others.

Why, then, do I even have a script version? Because I can do things like pop up a child "credits" window. It also moves part of the load from the server to the client. In this case it's minimal and virtually worthless. The client gets the entire document on initial hit and script handles the pagination. For the non-script version, the server handles the pagination. There's only a gain if a viewer pops back and forth between pages. Of course, the non-script version could be a huge page with anchors; I just like the other way better. The gain could be more in the case where a site pops to the server for every shopping-cart change, versus the client handling it.

I'm really of two minds about the situation. I've about fallen in love with the xmlhttp capabilities after doing a sales-tracking thangy for an automotive dealership. That, of course, requires script.

The fact is that I have the ability to write script. That makes me lazy. Some effects I like can be achieved if I dig into the CSS hard enough and discover the proper attributes and what all their possible setting can do. I'm trying to accrue all that. Some things I don't believe CAN be done. Also, IE is just a huge pain in the butt, to me, but I realize that my commercial work is just going to have to deal with it.

Writlaus · Mar 31st, 2006, 6:54 PM

All I'm having javascript do is call other pages behind-the-scenes, to get and send new information.

logbru1.farvista.net is the site. All it is is a place you can put a phrase in, and it will get a randomly chosen phrase from the database and display it. Not much more.

The only button on the page that doesn't use javascript right now is the submit button. The other buttons use javascript to get a new phrase or send feedback on a certain phrase.

And don't mind the show/hide options button, it's mostly for testing right now.

Thank you all for your help.

DaWei · Mar 31st, 2006, 8:25 PM

Hmmm, I can't connect to that address.

Writlaus · Apr 1st, 2006, 7:30 PM

http://logbru1.farvista.net/

that one?

DaWei · Apr 1st, 2006, 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox

(Toggle Plain Text)

Unable to connect

Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at logbru1.farvista.net.

    *   The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few
          moments.

    *   If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network
          connection.

    *   If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure
          that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

The location bar:

http://logbru1.farvista.net/

Arevos · Apr 2nd, 2006, 5:01 AM

I can access the site.

Your site appears to be AJAX, using XMLHttpRequest. Perhaps you could construct a form that would send data normally to your application through standard CGI, and then use javascript to "override" the form. Perhaps this would be as easy as adding in an onClick event, or perhaps the POST address of the form would need to be changed. Regardless, javascript can easily edit the DOM of a page.

So, you could have a normal CGI application for those without Javascript, and a fancy AJAX application for those with it.

Mar 31st, 2006, 3:26 PM	#1
Writlaus Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 149 Rep Power: 3	Javascript alternative? A lot of people disable javascript, I've found out, and so my site (which I just created with quite a bit javascript in there) doesn't work for the most part, for those people. Is there some other clientside language that isn't viewed as "dangerous" as javascript seems to be? Or am I overestimating the amount of people who disable javascript?

Mar 31st, 2006, 3:54 PM	#2
Infinite Recursion Programming Guru Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3,467 Rep Power: 8	You are probably over estimating the people who disable javascript. A lot of commercial sites require it... __________________ http://jasonpowers.net "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."

Mar 31st, 2006, 5:46 PM	#5
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	Agent 47's opinion is the primary reason for my being in the middle of rewriting my site. The Grumpy tutorial will run either way, and I'm working on the others. Why, then, do I even have a script version? Because I can do things like pop up a child "credits" window. It also moves part of the load from the server to the client. In this case it's minimal and virtually worthless. The client gets the entire document on initial hit and script handles the pagination. For the non-script version, the server handles the pagination. There's only a gain if a viewer pops back and forth between pages. Of course, the non-script version could be a huge page with anchors; I just like the other way better. The gain could be more in the case where a site pops to the server for every shopping-cart change, versus the client handling it. I'm really of two minds about the situation. I've about fallen in love with the xmlhttp capabilities after doing a sales-tracking thangy for an automotive dealership. That, of course, requires script. The fact is that I have the ability to write script. That makes me lazy. Some effects I like can be achieved if I dig into the CSS hard enough and discover the proper attributes and what all their possible setting can do. I'm trying to accrue all that. Some things I don't believe CAN be done. Also, IE is just a huge pain in the butt, to me, but I realize that my commercial work is just going to have to deal with it. __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

Mar 31st, 2006, 8:25 PM	#7
DaWei Resident Grouch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,453 Rep Power: 10	Hmmm, I can't connect to that address. __________________ Abstraction doesn't make it impossible to write bad code; it makes it possible to write superior code. Contributor's Corner: Grumpy on C++ Exceptions DaWei on Pointers

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Mar 31st, 2006, 5:41 PM	#4
Arevos Programming Guru Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,499 Rep Power: 5	Yep, ideally Javascript shouldn't add any extra functionality to your website. Improve it, yes, but it should always be possible to access a website without it, just as it should be possible to access a site without images or stylesheets if need be. In reality, however, very few sites meet this standard.

Mar 31st, 2006, 6:54 PM	#6
Writlaus Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 149 Rep Power: 3	All I'm having javascript do is call other pages behind-the-scenes, to get and send new information. logbru1.farvista.net is the site. All it is is a place you can put a phrase in, and it will get a randomly chosen phrase from the database and display it. Not much more. The only button on the page that doesn't use javascript right now is the submit button. The other buttons use javascript to get a new phrase or send feedback on a certain phrase. And don't mind the show/hide options button, it's mostly for testing right now. Thank you all for your help.

Apr 1st, 2006, 7:30 PM	#8
Writlaus Hobbyist Programmer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 149 Rep Power: 3	http://logbru1.farvista.net/ that one?

Apr 2nd, 2006, 5:01 AM	#10
Arevos Programming Guru Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,499 Rep Power: 5	I can access the site. Your site appears to be AJAX, using XMLHttpRequest. Perhaps you could construct a form that would send data normally to your application through standard CGI, and then use javascript to "override" the form. Perhaps this would be as easy as adding in an onClick event, or perhaps the POST address of the form would need to be changed. Regardless, javascript can easily edit the DOM of a page. So, you could have a normal CGI application for those without Javascript, and a fancy AJAX application for those with it.

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Programming Forums > Web Development and Design > JavaScript and Client-Side Browser Scripting

Javascript alternative?