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Sane · Sep 28th, 2005, 6:38 PM

I don't get it. I hear C++ referred to as "low-level" and Python as "high-level".

What is this all about?

Benoit · Sep 28th, 2005, 6:43 PM

Low-level is closer to the hardware, assembly is lowest level

iignotus · Sep 28th, 2005, 7:46 PM

Things like type inferencing, memory management, automated structuring, arrays, functions; these are all aspects of a given language that can also help classify it as high- or low-level.

Note php, a high-level language's loose type structure:

(Toggle Plain Text)

$myString = "Hello, World!";
$myInteger = 459;
$myRealNum = 332.23;

Versus, say, C++'s strict type structuring:

(Toggle Plain Text)

char[13] = "Hello, World!";
int myInteger = 459;
float myRealNum = 332.23;

That is just one of many differences. C++ in this case is comparatively low-level, though in general C++ is seen as a middle- or higher-level language.

Sane · Sep 29th, 2005, 6:07 AM

Ah... got it. Thanks.

ChiHappens · Sep 29th, 2005, 7:34 AM

hmm its funny since java and other scripting languages have come about, C++ has moved from High level to low? I don't think so. C++ is at its most mundane and non oop coding a mid-level language. I think low-level is reserved for ASM and maybe PL1. But I guess it's a lonely world at that level, so we lump C++ there.

If you see some elegant oop code in C++, the abstraction can NOT be considered low. Hell it might even be high.

See it's all how you approach the definition of "level"

If you approach it from the point of view of Writability, then the lower the level, the less like english (or INSERT YOUR LANGUAGE HERE).

If you approach it from the point of Hardware Abstraction, then the lower the level, the less abstraction.

So its debatable.

The only thing I know is VB6 and COBOL should be in a level of their own. (grr can you tell I have had to build VB6 controls for COBOL the last few days...I miss C#)

Later,
Chi

ChiHappens · Sep 29th, 2005, 7:54 AM

A colleague just came into my office and set me straight. C++ can be considered a low-level language if you consider all the hardware abilities of a language, meaning that in C++ you can use pointers and pointer math as well as low-level api calls (os specific) and finally he points out:

"C++ will compile inline Assembly code...how much lower do you want? binary?"

I humbly accept C++ is low-level,
Chi

bl00dninja · Sep 30th, 2005, 3:02 AM

i think c++'s ability to accept inline code written in a different language has nothing to do with c++'s "level". yeah, you can add asm. that's not c++. that's c++ with asm added to it. i can say "me want food" instead of saying "i'm currently feeling rather famished". that doesn't mean anything...it's an added feature. i've heard SQL referred to as a fourth-level language because of the high level of abstraction involved in that particular "language". you can nitpick on terminology all day, that doesn't really change anything. i can say that the sky is "warflle" instead of blue...no connection whatsoever.

the idea is that "high" level languages allow the programmer to type code in pseudo-english, rather than by moving bits hither and anon. just because you can STILL DO the low-level stuff, doesn't make it low-level. it's only appropriate that a high-level language inherit the low-level capabilities of it's predecessors.

you do lose things with languages like python...like an automatic transmission, sure it's easier, but you have a lot more control (and speed) with a good 'ole stick-shift.

Arevos · Sep 30th, 2005, 3:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl00dninja

you do lose things with languages like python...like an automatic transmission, sure it's easier, but you have a lot more control (and speed) with a good 'ole stick-shift.

Higher level languages, such as Python, give the user more power per instruction. Whilst your analogy is somewhat accurate, given that you lose the control over memory management and basic instruction in higher level programming, but offsetting this disadvantage is the fact that higher level languages give users language constructs that do not exist in lower level languages.

For instance, in Python I have metaclasses, introspection and higher level functions, features which do not exist in C++. Nor do I believe it is possible to recreate such functionality in C++ without floating a new language on top of C++ (which rather defeats the point).

My simile of choice would be to compare higher-level languages to a power-saw, and a lower level language to a hand-saw.

Arevos · Sep 30th, 2005, 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iignotus

Note php, a high-level language's loose type structure:

(Toggle Plain Text)

$myString = "Hello, World!";
$myInteger = 459;
$myRealNum = 332.23;

Higher level languages don't have to be weakly or dynamically typed. There are many high level languages that have strong static typing.

Polyphemus_ · Sep 30th, 2005, 4:53 AM

C++ is the lowest level object oriented programming language, but not really a low level language. A mid-level language, I would say.

Sep 28th, 2005, 6:38 PM	#1
Sane Programming Guru Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 1,886 Rep Power: 5	High-level? Low-level? I don't get it. I hear C++ referred to as "low-level" and Python as "high-level". What is this all about?

Sep 28th, 2005, 6:43 PM	#2
Benoit Expert Programmer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 555 Rep Power: 5	Low-level is closer to the hardware, assembly is lowest level __________________ Johnny was a chemist's son but Johnny is no more, for what Johnny thought was H2O was H2SO4

Sep 28th, 2005, 7:46 PM	#3
iignotus Professional Programmer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Nowhere Special Posts: 466 Rep Power: 4	Things like type inferencing, memory management, automated structuring, arrays, functions; these are all aspects of a given language that can also help classify it as high- or low-level. Note php, a high-level language's loose type structure: (Toggle Plain Text) $myString = "Hello, World!"; $myInteger = 459; $myRealNum = 332.23; $myString = "Hello, World!"; $myInteger = 459; $myRealNum = 332.23; Versus, say, C++'s strict type structuring: (Toggle Plain Text) char[13] = "Hello, World!"; int myInteger = 459; float myRealNum = 332.23; char[13] = "Hello, World!"; int myInteger = 459; float myRealNum = 332.23; That is just one of many differences. C++ in this case is comparatively low-level, though in general C++ is seen as a middle- or higher-level language. __________________ (Toggle Plain Text) % rc4 hexkey < input > output #define S ,t=s[i],s[i]=s[j],s[j]=t /* rc4 hexkey <file / unsigned char k[256],s[256],i,j,t;main(c,v,e)charv;{++v;while(++i)s[ i]=i;for(c=0;(v)++;k[c++]=e)sscanf((v)++-1,"%2x",&e);while(j+=s[i] +k[i%c]S,++i);for(j=0;c=~getchar();putchar(~c^s[t+=s[i]]))j+=s[++i]S;}

Sep 29th, 2005, 7:34 AM	#5
ChiHappens Programmer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brevard, NC Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	hmm its funny since java and other scripting languages have come about, C++ has moved from High level to low? I don't think so. C++ is at its most mundane and non oop coding a mid-level language. I think low-level is reserved for ASM and maybe PL1. But I guess it's a lonely world at that level, so we lump C++ there. If you see some elegant oop code in C++, the abstraction can NOT be considered low. Hell it might even be high. See it's all how you approach the definition of "level" If you approach it from the point of view of Writability, then the lower the level, the less like english (or INSERT YOUR LANGUAGE HERE). If you approach it from the point of Hardware Abstraction, then the lower the level, the less abstraction. So its debatable. The only thing I know is VB6 and COBOL should be in a level of their own. (grr can you tell I have had to build VB6 controls for COBOL the last few days...I miss C#) Later, Chi __________________ http://www.starshipcombatsimulator.com They mostly come at night...mostly.

Sep 29th, 2005, 7:54 AM	#6
ChiHappens Programmer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brevard, NC Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	A colleague just came into my office and set me straight. C++ can be considered a low-level language if you consider all the hardware abilities of a language, meaning that in C++ you can use pointers and pointer math as well as low-level api calls (os specific) and finally he points out: "C++ will compile inline Assembly code...how much lower do you want? binary?" I humbly accept C++ is low-level, Chi __________________ http://www.starshipcombatsimulator.com They mostly come at night...mostly.

Sep 29th, 2005, 6:07 AM	#4
Sane Programming Guru Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 1,886 Rep Power: 5	Ah... got it. Thanks.

Sep 30th, 2005, 3:02 AM	#7
bl00dninja Programming Guru Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: namespace std Posts: 1,246 Rep Power: 5	i think c++'s ability to accept inline code written in a different language has nothing to do with c++'s "level". yeah, you can add asm. that's not c++. that's c++ with asm added to it. i can say "me want food" instead of saying "i'm currently feeling rather famished". that doesn't mean anything...it's an added feature. i've heard SQL referred to as a fourth-level language because of the high level of abstraction involved in that particular "language". you can nitpick on terminology all day, that doesn't really change anything. i can say that the sky is "warflle" instead of blue...no connection whatsoever. the idea is that "high" level languages allow the programmer to type code in pseudo-english, rather than by moving bits hither and anon. just because you can STILL DO the low-level stuff, doesn't make it low-level. it's only appropriate that a high-level language inherit the low-level capabilities of it's predecessors. you do lose things with languages like python...like an automatic transmission, sure it's easier, but you have a lot more control (and speed) with a good 'ole stick-shift. __________________ i put on my robe and wizard hat... Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons.

Sep 30th, 2005, 4:53 AM	#10
Polyphemus_ Expert Programmer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rotterdam, the Netherlands Posts: 942 Rep Power: 4	C++ is the lowest level object oriented programming language, but not really a low level language. A mid-level language, I would say.

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Programming Forums > Community Forums > Coder's Corner Lounge

High-level? Low-level?